Curse

RhanoctJocosa · Feb 07, 2008, 07:08 AM // 07:08

where's the buff to dwarven battle stance?

fail

Sab · Feb 07, 2008, 07:24 AM // 07:24

Chilblains is the new Dwarven Battle Stance.

Zabe · Feb 07, 2008, 07:39 AM // 07:39

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Originally Posted by Unexist

You speak like a noob. ''Massive partyheals'' isn't that great, it's still not as great as lod used to be. Massive partyheals is only if you go for lod + heal party + divine healing + sor, or any combination of either 2 of that. That's still a combination, which isn't like the old lod ''spam this and live'' thing.

Oh and btw, VoD is 25%, not 40%. Generally you should already have made a big difference before VoD, and if you don't screwup at vod you win. If you have equal teams, it's all about who owns most at aoe.

Oh and another btw, pleak will be reverted. Pleak is generally what makes pressure builds working(if you use it for example, at aegis).

I thought you noticed that I counted VoD + Victory is ours which in total adds for 40% boost. Haven't played any games so far so don't know how they work in action.

And to partyheals, I were talking about combinations of them. If you would go now for the same old build with motigon and ritflagger (maybe healparty or lod on stand too?) you have more partyheals.

But yes, we will see how these work out.

Shuuda · Feb 07, 2008, 07:57 AM // 07:57

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I am speechless at the power leak nerf. I don't know if you actually play the game or pay attention, but power leak was about 50% of the mesmer shut down of the standard GvG bar today. This update proves you don't pay attention or give a shit.

No, it proves that A-net does listen, but that they went a bit to far with the bat. One interrupt being 50% of Shutdown is a bad thing.

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Power Leak is out of the game completely, and you haven't buffed anything.

They buffed Drain Enchantment, and someother crap. >_> <_< <_< >_>

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Just be smart about the power leak nerf, and stop siding with bitches who complain about getting power leaked because they don't know how to cancel skills.

So you want GvG to become a game of "Lets cancel skills till we get the half cast time by abusing Glyph of Lesser energy" Because wasn't that pretty much the relationship between Pleak and Aegis in blockway?

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Theres intelligent ways to balance the game, and this was faaaar from it.

Well, it was closer than most, your being to emotional over things, One skill got blasted and you think it's the end of the world.

Div · Feb 07, 2008, 08:08 AM // 08:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shuuda

Well, it was closer than most, your being to emotional over things, One skill got blasted and you think it's the end of the world.

Because pleak is half of katina's world

Shuuda · Feb 07, 2008, 08:10 AM // 08:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

Because pleak is half of katina's world

Diversion better be the other half.

tigros · Feb 07, 2008, 08:30 AM // 08:30

Seeing minor buffs to self healing (war, ran) and party healing (monk, para) I am thinking that maybe more diverse splits would see play nowadays.

I am wondering why splits seem to work only 2 ways, one in your base to defend and the other one in their base to gank. I'd like to see more 2-3-3 splits let's say, or even 1-2-4 splits targeting all the game resources mentioned by Ensign.

You could have a sturdy self surviving char doing flag running and assisting with base defense, you could have a dedicated split pressuring their base and then a mobile split running between your base and their base to prevent or hinder their attempt at ganking you.

This way gvg might become more like a strategy game where positioning, mobility and skill synergies between 1-2-3-4 chars would be more important than party block way or party healing.

I think most classes have decent mobility skills to allow for fast map traveling, they have decent self heals to not instantly succumb in a 1-1 or 2-2 situation, mobility and communication would allow to switch resources from base to flag to base again depending on the needs.

I honestly like much more split games than 8v8 flag stand games, it's fascinating to follow on observer individual chars, see how they position to have advantage in a specific task (like take out outer rangers for example, exploiting higher ground for rangers, forcing monks/rits to defend npcs, sometimes bringing an offensive char to counter that ganker and so on...)

I think that this type of play encourages more individual skilled playing, as well as team coordination of resources across the map.

Let's see how this works out and then we will be able to comment and suggest changes.

Akaraxle · Feb 07, 2008, 08:31 AM // 08:31

WHY OH WHY DO YOU HAVE TO BUFF ELE SKILLS THAT JUST BEG TO BE ABUSED BY MESMER EACH AND EVERY TIME? k.

I don't see why people want to keep buffing self-healing options for classes that aren't supposed to have Monk-level heals. I understand you want to split all over the place, but this is a team game.

It's silly how a single archer can make such a huge difference for ViO. Making it so each NPC you have more than your enemy counts as +2% damage, capping at +15%, would make more sense.

Aragiel Cz · Feb 07, 2008, 09:21 AM // 09:21

wow.. i can say just.. what the hell is that!

1) VOD update? new shout? VOD is worst part of the game since ANET is "evaluating" theese changes. so why do not put one more crapy shout? It´s almost like lotery.. who can win.. I see the point . IZZY like BYOB.. and crazy running arround the map.. so he is forcing us to play split builds..

2) power leak? again.. what the hell.. ? ok.. was little bit owerpowered but still.. only 5 energy lose? thx.. i´m not going to use this skill .. never.. let´s play power spike or power lock

3) party heal.. ok.. why not.. anyway LOD with 10 sec recharge? noone is going to play it.. WOH is still better.. and now we have 1sec casting time heal party.. so who cares about LOD
Song of Restoration? that´s not true.. how can be buffed something what everyone in gvg is using? .. hmm.. nvm all teams will be playing splits soon.. so this paragon will be forgotten.

4) random bufs.. random nerfs.. Grenth? hmm.. welcome spikers.. spirit bond is waiting for you..

5) clumsines, ineptitude.. hex breaker.. Ok at least.. one step to right way.. Thank you.

JR · Feb 07, 2008, 09:21 AM // 09:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akaraxle

It's silly how a single archer can make such a huge difference for ViO. Making it so each NPC you have more than your enemy counts as +2% damage would make more sense, capping at +15%, would make more sense.

I suggested that to Izzy last night, but with 5% per NPC to make it a little more meaningfull (and still with the cap of 15%). He seemed to like it.

I like it as an addition to the game, as it is now. It needs improving, but it swings the game in a more healthy direction: From splinter farmining NPCs at VoD to having to split before hand. I massively prefer splitting.

Vaga · Feb 07, 2008, 09:46 AM // 09:46

Recharge hit to pleak and keeping the -19 would have been much nicer. It's nice when you're making a big push if you can hit a monk for -19 and really put them in trouble. I'd much rather have pleak at like 18r -19. Pleak isn't that bad now, just a lot more of a toolbox skill than ever before (i.e you'd only run it if you were really focusing on edenial). That said with pleak gone it's actually feasable to bring a lot more spells again which has made the game more fun apart from the fact there's really no reason to fight 8v8.

With pleak nerfed they should go ahead and nerf some other stuff like glyph lesser though, because we've lived with cancel spamming skills and it's just not a very good game mechanic.

Paragons still need a nerf, paraspike is going to be supremely strong and you already see teams bringing 2-3 shields up just to be able to deal with it. In addition to that if para's are nerfed you can go and nerf passive defense, another undesirable part of the game.

In terms of VoD, why are you changing all this stuff? Splitting was 'fun' when people did 'balanced' splits, not when people ran dedicated splits. The value of NPC's needs to be as little as possible whilst still making dedicated splits viable but not the clear dominant strategy. Get rid of the new shout and other bullshit added. Just have vod with the +% damage and remove some npcs from the base.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

I like it as an addition to the game, as it is now. It needs improving, but it swings the game in a more healthy direction: From splinter farmining NPCs at VoD to having to split before hand. I massively prefer splitting.

With NPC's so powerful you just see builds with 5 paragons 3 monks charge into the opponents base and wipe out all their NPC's and then go sit in their own base, never worrying about the flagstand at all.

Riotgear · Feb 07, 2008, 10:36 AM // 10:36

P-leak should be 5 energy if they're going to leave it anywhere near its current state.

JR · Feb 07, 2008, 10:45 AM // 10:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaga

With NPC's so powerful you just see builds with 5 paragons 3 monks charge into the opponents base and wipe out all their NPC's and then go sit in their own base, never worrying about the flagstand at all.

Sounds like a random gimmick catching people by surprise. I really don't see it lasting once people adapt to the changes.

erk · Feb 07, 2008, 10:48 AM // 10:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaga

With NPC's so powerful you just see builds with 5 paragons 3 monks charge into the opponents base and wipe out all their NPC's and then go sit in their own base, never worrying about the flagstand at all.

That wont last, people will cotton on to that quick smart and leave an aniti-Paragon holding team back in their base and, and send off a gank to roll the Paragons base. Balanced splits will win in the end.

Vaga · Feb 07, 2008, 11:20 AM // 11:20

If you send any credible split into their base they just send 1-2 monks back, last I checked a balanced split can't kill that as has been demonsrated by dR. Anti-paragon holding team translates to blockway, which will lose to an actual split build and which the paragon build has the tools to deal with unless you run like triple shields up or something ridiculous.

Cass · Feb 07, 2008, 11:32 AM // 11:32

1) Power Leak nerf is ridiculous.

Ok, you want to tone it down a little. Don't take crack then and put it at -14 @ 12r, or -19 @ 20r.

What is this utter ruination of a staple dom mes skill supposed to achieve? If you want to bring a dom mes into gvg the 2 skills that gave that template its power were Diversion and Power Leak. None of the other interrupts have comparable power. A random 100 dmg from power spike doesn't cut it, and for frequency, you can take this on a paragon and be done with it. Power Lock is weak as well, the disabling effect is next to negligible. I have seen people trying these skills as replacements, but it's just too weak. Remember, these mesmer live by their regular skills, none of their elites are worth their name.

In my view, dom mesmers are becoming irrelevant fast with such a harsh change and candidates for replacement; most likely by a skillless motigon SoR singer with Power Spike and Mirror. You're basically sacrificing a diversion here and there for constant spear-chucking and party-wide defenses.

In my view, a domination mes is one of the coolest aspects of GW pvp, the unique combination of difficulty and reward involved in playing this disruptive role is amazing. The emotional response of people who moan about getting interrupted is actually a side effect of this: It's way worse to get thwarted by someone who is predicting you and who is fast to react to your moves, than it is by being, say, hex-stacked. In the first case, the opponent really got you down, which means the weakness is you (too predictable, can't fake-cast, etc). In the second case it was just a "you can't do anything about it" situation, and therefore you are not to blame. That's more comfortable, and thus a preferred scenario for many. Don't listen to these sore losers. Don't destroy the domination template.

2) VoD update is equally dumb.

GvG should NOT be an NPC-centered affair. The ViO mechanic is too stupid for words. A sole archer resulting in a huge VoD boost? Why? Anyway Ensign already wrote an essay on this, and I suggest you read it.

erk · Feb 07, 2008, 11:36 AM // 11:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaga

If you send any credible split into their base they just send 1-2 monks back, but I guess the MH splittadin could just solo them right?

A credible split will destroy 1-2 monks without some other anti-melee, think 4 +4 split. The Paragon teams are good because there are 5 of them altogether with their defense web etc. and 5 * spears at once. They tend to move a a unit, use that to your advantage, if they try and roll your base roll theirs with more fire power.

What about something like two TA style teams of 2 * Warriors, a Rit, and a Monk. Both teams have a shadow step of some sort to avoid lugging the guild thief on maps the need it, and both teams have someone that can run a flag if necessary. You go for both base entrances at once and the team that gets 8v4 pressure kites whilst the other pushes in. I am sure there are zillions of 4 + 4 combos that might be better, that's just one I have seen played in AT's.

deya · Feb 07, 2008, 11:36 AM // 11:36

I agree that Para build is extremely strong now as they're so damn hard to kill and can easily push in to your base. Together with huge defense they also deal some nice amount of damage which will easily burn your backlines energy down very fast.

I have kinda mixed feelings about this recent update and propably will give my 2 cents after trying the new VoD.

JR · Feb 07, 2008, 11:39 AM // 11:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cass

GvG should NOT be an NPC-centered affair.

It is now just an NPC-centered affair for different reasons than it was before. Better reasons, at that.

Instead of NPCs now only mattering after VoD where you farm them with Spinter and other AoEs they now matter for all of the game running up to VoD and far less afterwards. I agree it's a little too swingy with the straight 15% bonus to the team who could only have one more archer, but as discussed options such as scaling it by a small amount per NPC could be possible.

I fully agree with Ensign that VoD now seems like a far too complex affair with multiple changes and additions bodged on, but it is still has the potential to be a lot better than it was before.

ensoriki · Feb 07, 2008, 11:49 AM // 11:49

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Assassin
• Shadow Refuge: decreased duration to 4 seconds; increased Health gain to 40..100.

A-net steps up to the plate, all bases loaded, they're looking good.
Here comes the pitch........ooh Strike out.
.

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Necromancer
• Blood is Power: decreased Energy cost to 1.
• Wallow's Bite: decreased Energy cost to 1.
• Touch of Agony: decreased Energy cost to 1.
• Dark Pact: decreased Energy cost to 1.
• Demonic Flesh: decreased Energy cost to 1.
• Blood Renewal: decreased Energy cost to 1.
• Blood Ritual: decreased Energy cost to 5.
• Offering of Blood: decreased Energy cost to 1
[/quote[
This sounds interesting, but why is this even needed to go so low when something like Masochism exists? +2 energy net gain whenever you cast a spell?
I bet someone can use that to fuel some new builds. Also it helps pve I guess,
Dark aura is better now that your saccing for no energy.

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Monk
• Divine Healing/Heaven's Delight: decreased Energy cost to 5; decreased casting time to 1 second; decreased recharge to 15 seconds; decreased healing to 15..60 Health.

^.^

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Elementalist
• Deep Freeze: decreased casting time to 2 seconds.

Thumbs up

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Dervish
• Avatar of Grenth: duration increased to 10..90 seconds; functionality changed to: "For 10..90 seconds, you cannot be blocked by enchanted foes, and your attacks deal cold damage. This skill is disabled for 120 seconds."

Nice to see Grenth back in the game... but can't there be something more? Just seems like its lacking.

Kinda like the update....but swing and miss with Shadow Refuge.